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I thought you might like to follow the next couple of ODBA races in lakeracer. A lot of guys don't think they can be competitive racing their lake boat - B.S.!

At the first ODBA event for 2005, Russ Bentley placed first in Lakeracer, but screwed up his weight and came in light by 5 pounds. He will be running the same set up at the next race in Jasper, TN - WITH MORE WEIGHT.

His set up included a River Rocket that weighs 1725 pounds with driver and all gear. 1.87:1 gears, and a 22p Yamaha prop. A stock 280 rotator with 260 electronics. SVS, A6 ECU, light flywheel, sport jet reed cages, and cut set of stock heads gave him 200 psi compression.

The engine turned 9700 rpm, and he didn't lose a pass - he just screwed up weighing the boat. By simply changing heads he can run this same engine all season on the lake on pump gas.

How many of you have nearly the same set up?

I just though this might clear up what it takes to be competitive in drag racing your boat.

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ODBA Lake Racer rules - http://www.odbaonline.com/modules.php?name...showpage&pid=22

Russ' boat is set up under the Super Gas rules for this class:

6. With motors/rigging conforming to Super Gas rules: 1725 pounds minimum weight

A. Production short-blocks, assembled, built or manufactured by a high-performance division, group or subsidiary of current APBA marine product manufacturers will be allowed except as noted. Engines must be marketed and distributed in the U.S. Engines must be available through a normal or high-performance dealer network and offered for sale with a warranty from the original manufacturer or the original manufacturers authorized high-performance division.

B. Short-block alterations of any kind are not allowed except as noted. No blueprinting, polishing, grinding, balancing, feathering, etc.

C. Short-blocks with steel sleeves may be decked a maximum of .010. Cylinder overbore limited to size of available OEM service parts.

D. Any modifications external to the short-block are allowed except as noted.

E. Clamp and swivel bracket must be an OEM part. Clamp and swivel bracket may be lightened, but not removed. No custom clamps or swivel brackets allowed.

F. Gear case must be shiftable (forward, neutral, reverse) from the drivers seat. Gear case must be an OEM part for that model motor. No small gear cases.

G. Short shaft midsections are allowed. 15 minimum length as measured from the powerhead flange to gear case flange. Midsections shortened to 15 must use OEM parts for that model motor. No Champ-type midsections.

H. Mercury/Mariner 2.5 liter Drag/S3000 powerhead is not allowed.

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Good post Wayne but I wonder how Russ will feel about you giving out his recipe! biggrin.gif Just kidding.

So why does everyone want a lightweight river rocket when they have to fill it with weight to make the weigh in? Can a Euro be competitive then with having to add less weight or is the deck design that much more less efficient speed wise?

I read somewhere about how much weight Robbie Lamkin has to add to his Rocket and it was a lot. I'm thinking light boat with weight added in the right spots is better than a heavy boat?

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RPM - Go to the link I provided for a FULL set of the rules for Lake Racer. A stock Drag can run in lakeracer but at different weights that at the Super Gas weight.

Pro Comp - The recipe is no secret. In fact the engine is the one off my lake boat. He couldn't get his ready in time to race, so he borrowed mine. I think that if more guys realize that there isn't a "secret" to racing and being competitive, they might give it a try.

If you are going to have to add a lot of weight to a boat to compete in a given class, a light weight hull doesn't make a lot of sense. You only want/need to have about 50 pounds to help balance a boat. More than that is just hard to secure. A stiff boat is faster and quicker than a very light boat with less structure.

A Euro can be VERY competitive.

Robbie's boat was VERY light, and Robbie weighs about half of what I do. So, a lot of weight had to be added. The first year he raced, he did it in a friend's boat that wasn't nearly as light as his own boat.

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More details:

The boat has a blueprinted bottom, and a "drag" plate added behind the pad. It is a standard lay up River Rocket.

The gearcase is the modified Sportmaster that is in the photos on the modified sportmaster thread. It has an after plane/whale tail on the cavitation plate.

The prop is a well used 22p Yamaha worked for the hull and weight.

Russ has been racing for several years, but under the Pro Gas rules in Lakeracer, with a highly modified Drag engine. I think he is now a convert to the K.I.S.S. principal.

The engine is a 280 rotator I bought new last year. The electronics were bought used. The heads are nothing special, and will probably be up for sale or for trade (for a standard set of 280 heads) next month. They have been cut to give 200 psi compression. The flywheel is lightened by Diamond - for reliability. The plug wires are Magnacor, and the spark plugs are NGK BR9HIX.

Expect a few changes for the next race. I always have a few things I want to test. wink.gif

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Wayne, this is a great thread! I always thought it was a $10,000.00 powerhead that has won Lakeracer at Jasper the last few years? I think that and turning our beloved lake boat motors 9700 rpm is what scares most of us away. It would be more tempting if a guy didn't have to risk grenading his powerhead just to be competitive.

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Despite what you might think, 9700 rpm is not really that bad. It does wear out rings faster than running at 7700 rpm - about 26% faster. Reeds don't even start having a hard time until beyond 10,000 rpm.

But in my area, there are SO many guys that turn this kind of rpm regularly on the rivers and lakes, 9700 rpm sounds fairly normal. A big prop at 7700 rpm for a long run is a lot harder on the engine than a few seconds at 9700-9900 rpm. The total amount of engine cycles the engine will see in a weekend of racing is a LOT less than on a weekend out on the lake with the family.

If you keep the EGT's under 1200 degrees, a 280 will live a long time, and make very good power. I have always liked the Super Gas rules in Lake Racer - you can do anything to the OUTSIDE of a completely stock engine. And then run normal heads the rest of the time on pump gas.

Some of the engines in Lakeracer are very expensively modified engines. Some are completely stock. The class gives so many guys (or gals) a great place to try racing, that I can't believe more don't try it.

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More on set up:

Russ' STV has 5 inches of set back, with a Rapid Jack plate. The propshaft height is right around 3/4 inch above the pad (or even with the outside strakes to the sides of the pad). This changes slightly with wind/water conditions.

For racing, the prop work is a big deal. The prop was worked for an STV at this weight, but getting it to hook up correctly through the entire track, and "flashing" to the correct rpm out of the gate, requires a lot of testing and set up work.

A great prop will be quicker than adding more power. If you can't hook it up, you can't use it.

I hope you guys enjoy this, I will keep you informed of the results of the next race.

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Wayne, since you touched on props, based on weight and motor specs and desireable rpm, what pitch would a Rocket run in the 1/4 for lake racer and what is the most common style or model used? 22-24 Yamaha's?

Also, when racing outside of the circuit just for fun without adding weight to a boat, can you run a little bigger pitch with the same performance?

What pitch would you run on your Rocket when you just go out to play?

Thanks.

B-RAD

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MOST of the guys running Lake Racer use 22p Yamahas. Most use 1.87 gears, but a few use 2:1 gears (I am not going there).

For fun, when doing a bit of informal drag racing on the lakes and rivers around here I like a 24p Yamaha. If we are only running a short course - like 1000 feet - a 22p will work well. Fow just blasting around on the lake, a 26p Hackney is my favorite. with a 28p ET or RE-3 coming up close behind.

In my opinion, the real Yamaha props are only good for racing. They give a good launch because the material they are cast in is so poor - not even real stainless - and the prop will flex a lot. But they flex too much for my taste for lake use. Tim Hackney at Performance Propellers (in Soddy Daisey, TN) makes a Yamaha copy in very good stainless, that flexes a lot less than the real ones. The 26p is a great prop when it is tailored for an STV. I just picked another one - thanks Dixon.

I also like a 28p ET copy that Jerry Gosset (JC's Propeller service - Killen, AL) made for me. I like it better than the real ones, but my Rocket likes 15-20 pounds up front with this prop. Some guys like the RE-3's better on Rockets, especially the light ones.

My Euro really liked a 28p ET as a good all around prop. And a 30-32 pitch Merc Cleaver for speed runs.

ANY good prop will work better if it is tailored (worked) for your boat and set up.

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Wayne this is some great info you posted and I'm sure it will help a few to understand how the lake racer class works and what it takes to be competitive.

Just last weekend I borrowed my buddy's V-21 that he races in the DSRA and took it to Lake Travis for the weekend. that was the first time in a couple of years I put more then just a couple of miles on a boat. we cruised for hours. all we did was swap his drag powerhead for a stocker and go!

it sure made Amanda and i start thinking about things. am I in the right class or not? unsure.gif

but a few use 2:1 gears (I am not going there).

ah, but why not wink.gifwink.gif

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Casey,

Lake Racer makes a LOT of sense. A boat that is ONLY good for racing does not, but I never had and sense - and now I only have cents. smile.gif

On the 2:1 gears, have you ET'd the boat with both sets of gears? 2:1's only run through the power band more quickly. If you need 2:1 gears something is wrong - you don't have any torque. I tested this several times, in fact, I have a really nice set of 2:1 gears, cut down for an XR case, that I will let go at half price of what I have in 'em - with VERY little use.

By the way, got any more 'Bama jokes? Krylon is on sale. smile.gif

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Wayne...............

I have never understood why someone would go to the trouble to build a hot boat, STV or whatever and then say "I wont race cause I cant win".

How would you know if you dont try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ER biggrin.gif

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Wayne back when I was racing my Triad we never got a chance to put the two on the clock the same day. there are just so many variables, the 2 to 1's with a 22p worked great for me at 1800lbs (odba), but sucked at 1700lbs (dsra).

but we have done quit a bit of testing with Jason's V-21 and the 2 to 1's are quicker on his boat. the motor also has a lot to do with it. the motor ER built Jason pulls very hard. on any given pass it will turn 10,500 to 10,700. the boat is quick! and is getting quicker! we have not done any gear testing since he got this motor, but we plan on it and who know's we may end up back with 1.87's.

sorry but i don't have any more goat sex jokes for ya! wink.gif

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Galen,

I feel the same way. The fun is in the competition and in getting faster and quicker each race. Take your boat and learning to drag race is a blast. The people are GREAT and the acceleration is a RUSH!

A lot of guys think they will tear up their engine racing it. If I thought that, I NEVER would have loaned Russ the engine off my lake boat for a couple of races. stringing out the boat at high spped is much harder on the engine and more dangerous for the driver. Drag racing has gotten me off the lake and away from high speed lake running.

Casey - I tried the 2:1's at both 1900 and 1800 pounds on the Euro with 22p and 24p props. NO DICE! Like I said, test, test test.....what works for one guy won't always work for another. I like to make a broad power band, so 2:1's don't seem to work for me.

Most of the guys I race in Pro Gas like 22p props with 1.87 gears. I go around a few of them at half track - the others I don't see after the light goes green. But that could change at any race. I am already looking for more prop or taller gears than the 24p and 1.87's I am using now. I don't want to turn any more rpm than I am already turning. 11,000 is TOO much.

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Wayne, enjoying these posts. I ran my STV in lake racer last year for the first time at Sneads. My first loss was to the boat that won the class. Second loss was to the boat that finished either second or third. I had a blast. I ran under the super stock 260 rules with a run every weekend on the river motor. Someone was kind enough to let me borrow a Diamond flywheel and I bolted on a set of 26cc heads. Motor was not drystacked, was a 20" mid, no lightened clamp bracket and I still made several rounds.

ODBA had also let me enter at Demopolis and I paid all my fees but never made a pass due to a brand new never run before Diamond flywheel that was screwed up. I was all set to see if I could run this year and e-mailed for permission but was told that they had decided that I would not be able to participate this year ( my boat is an in line two seater ) so instead of joining, I invested my ODBA membership dues in a new shotgun.

This is where ODBA is lacking. Lake racer is supposed to be a kind of entry level class and I can't figure where else a boat like mine is supposed to fit. It is just a standard weight hull with a stock motor except for the items added for Sneads that I mentioned above.

I keep reading about " come out and race " we need more members and all I can say is, I tried.

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Big Iron,

The inline two seater (ModVP deck) is not an open boat and does not seat a minimum of three people. As a result, it does not belong in Lake Racer (just like an Allison XR 2001, Mirage Quartermaster, Full Throttle Quartershot T1, or a DR-20). In order to allow you to get your feet wet, the ODBA Officals bent the rules at your first race. That was mighty nice of them, I think. (Didn't you also run that hull in Lake Racer at Jasper the year before?)

Rule #1 for the Lake Racer class: "1. Boats: Regular production open cockpit Ski or Bass boats originally configured with seating for 3 or more people. Passenger seats may be removed during competition."

Where your hull, and your engine really belong is in Super Stock. Trent Blocker ran his STV ModVP in this class and did very well his first season with the exact same set up. His boat was very heavy - triple layers of Kevlar in the hull bottom. He was 80 pounds over weight for his first race. He re-rigged the boat to lose the extra weight. He was NOT allowed to run in Lake Racer, even though he also had the inline seating for 2. He had a stock 260 as well, that he ran every weekend on the lakes and rivers around MS, and AL before he started racing, and then still ran quite a lot afterwards.

I was told that the ODBA said you couldn't run in Lake Racer with that hull any more, it wouldn't be fair to the other racers in the class to allow you to continue running that boat. You can still run it in Super Stock. At 1400 pounds, it would be more fun, and the STV hull design would definately like less weight.

You still have a class to run that boat in, and I still say "Come out and race!". You should have seen my first season in Pro Gas! smile.gif

Super Stock rules - http://www.odbaonline.com/modules.php?name...showpage&pid=21

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Wayne. these were the only two times I entered. I have never run at Jasper.

I appreciate your comments on super stock but I really don't want to mess my boat up trying to cut out weight and if I mentioned buying another one I would probaly have to come live with you.

I still think there needs to be an entry level class where cost is a consideration. Electronic trim control, drystacking, tuner modifications, removing weight from the clamp bracket, buying several sets of new pistons and rods so the lighest six can be selected, Weldon pumps, modified trim pumps, blueprinted bottoms are just some of the things you have to compete with in super stock if you want to be competitive.

I would just like to see the sport grow.

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Big Iron (I don't know your name),

I KNOW how you feel about buying another boat. I do have a couple of spare rooms though. wink.gif

In the ODBA, Lake Racer is the only entry level class - and it is a great one with lots of different rules to allow a lot of guys a chance to get started with what they have. Your boat just doesn't fit in the class.

In the DSRA, they have an entry level Super Stock class that is based on RACE boats like yours, but they use 200 hp engines. I really like these rules and the reduced costs to race these engines. But your engine doesn't fit in here either. You COULD buy a 200 cheap and rebuild it, but then you would probable be living with me. But your 260 could be used for lake use still.

The DSRA also has a class called Bass and Ski Racer, but it is Modified Production engines, you still don't fit in with your engine.

Unfortunately, your boat is keeping you out of entry level competition. But the same parts and modifications you mentioned are still done in entry level classes. If someone thinks they can find an edge within the rules, SOMEONE will try it sooner or later.

I know the guys that help make the rules TRY to give every one a place to run, it isn't always possible - for one reason or another. If you change your mind about Super Stock, let me know. I will help in any way I can.

If you want to run Lake Racer in Chattahoochee this year, give me a call ASAP.

-Wayne [cell 205.432.8041]

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I was waiting for this thread to have a few more comments before posting. I have talked to Wayne about what I'm writing here but here are a few comments/concerns that I have from my point of view. Keep in mind that these comments are directed at the guys that WANT to try racing but don't fit in a class without some changes to their equipment or the purchasing of some parts to be competitive.

For every boat that comes off the lake and fit into a class that is established, I can come up with 10 that don't, won't, or couldn't be competitive even if they conformed to the rules. Some boats or combos just are at a total disadvantage. This is one of the pitfalls of boat racing, the "chassis" or boat is sometimes not ever going to be competitve without huge modifications. Here in MN we had open ended boat racing in the early 90's. We grouped guys together based on their PERFORMANCE with the equipment the had. In some of those races we had 50 entries. Then the rules and classes were put in place and within 2 years.....no more drag racing. We have brought it back here like before. Our "entry level classes" are based on pure performance. If you show up, one way or another we will make you fit in a competitve class. We have a Pro Gas and Mod Production class for the regular racers but if your using your "lake" boat we fit you in one of three groups. Your boat is timed and compared and adjustments are sometimes made.

Example: Dave Hanly has an XR2002 with a ported steel sleeve 2.5. He wanted to run with the group 2 lake guys but was to quick. I added 100lbs to his boat next to the fuel tank and made him run his 28" prop. He finished mid pack out of 14 boats and it was a battle royal. Later that day he took out the weight and ran with the group 3 guys. ( faster group and he ran a 24" prop). He was the runner up. Point being that he did this with his lake boat and no additional money was spent to conform to a specific set of rules. In the current ODBA rules he would have to run Pro Gas or Lake Racer (at some huge weight) and not even be close. I am not undermining the current ODBA rules here, just pointing out that ther are 9 guys for every 1 that will not be in the hunt without some serious modification to their rigs. A guy with an Allison Gran Sport is at a dissadvantage to a Supersport or an XR unless I put him with handicaped SS's and XR's. Same for Riverrockets and heavy Euro's. If this was car racing and we had tons of entries there would not be any issue. But boat racing, sadly, is 1/10th of car racing and we need to INCLUDE everybody and make sure they are competitive. They way we group them allows them to have fun and not have to go out and buy $1000 props and drag plates etc.

During the interview John Tiger was doing with me for the Bass and Walleye gearcase article, we got side tracked and talked about racing and what happened in his area. He was really in to drag racing in his area a couple years ago. In one story he stated they had a guy show up with a V-King and a 2.4 bridgeport and he did not conform to the "rules". He would have been in the hunt with some of their guys but just didn't fit "to the letter". They turned him away. The racing stuggled and John got disenchanted just like I have. Now they have a new commodore that is working WITH the guys that show up and making them fit somewhere. Their membership is up and it is getting back to where it once was. In Minnesota/Wisconsin it has grown by almost doubling itself every year. We are trying to give the guy off the lake, with his boat...like it is in his driveway, a chance at competition. If they are hooked and want to get more serious then that is where the current ODBA rules and classes come in. Kind of a Pro/Am like the car guys do. The lake racer groups or classes that we have are so successful that without them we would not have any drag racing here. This is where the NEW guys that move up to challenge Wayne and the regulars are going to come from. Maybe only one out of thirty that try racing will go to that level, but that is what will keep the sport growing. Wayne NEEDS the competition. I'm sure that is what fuels his passion. Some of you just want to race and have a fair chance without changing what you own or mortgaging the house. Some of you will be hooked on it and move on to the spec classes. That is what this is all about. Last year we had different winners in every event..it was that close.

In closing I have talked to Wayne about this and the future of racing. (I'm trying to get him to give me 2 hours of water time on Friday at Jasper for a demo race of this type. To show it's potential.) We have a possibility of getting some drag races in a couple major cities for some unheard of money. MPLS Aquatennial is one such place. If we all work toward a common goal this thing can do nothing but grow.

Just some thoughts..

Randy

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Randy,

I think this is EXACTLY the right time and place for this discussion. I am not currently an ODBA official, I am just helping behind the scenes this year. So don't take this as anyone's official position, just me speaking off the top of my head.

I truely believe that the open ended classed you mention are the best way to start new racers and promote the sport - period. But most guys that want to get started will not, or cannot, take the time and money away from work and family to go to ODBA events. I have seen this happen before, even as lately as last year when the ODBA looked into adopting just such a class. The local racers in other areas were polled and only 2 of 12 said they would trave to more than just Jasper for the "Worlds".

As great as Jasper has become, it is still the championship for the ODBA. The staff is already covered up working this event with the number of new guys runing in each class that already are in the book. Adding new classes just to race at this event will be a hard sell. At another race, earlier in the season, it would be a great idea. IF....IF...IF they will come.

Again, this is just my .02,

___________________________________________

Slight change of topic:

For these guys (and gals)that want to get started in racing, helping to set up local clubs is a priority for the sport. It is the only way to help the sport grow. What you (and several others) are doing, is what I hope to be doing soon in my area. I am trying to put together a local grass roots organization that includes a couple of "formula" classes (like the ODBA), and a couple of open ended classes. My belief is that this will allow guys to get started and possibly even move up to compete at a higher level, while growing the sport. AND they won't be forced to compete from the beginning with some of the toughest competition available. They can CHOOSE to move up at any time.

The time it takes to put together a small racing club, get liability coverage, and have rescue crews available - while fighting the red tape and working for a living - is keeping me from moving as fast as I would like. And I know that even when I am through, I will not be able to make everyone happy.

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Wayne,

I think we are on the same page on most things. My Jasper deal is this: It would be by preregistration only. If we didn't have enough guys to make a decent showing we'd know before hand and not do it. I picked Jasper because so many guys go there anyhow and many bring their boats to do the river run. Also I figured it could be the spark that many would see and maybe bring to their local level clubs, or events. If the local guys get going you end up with some doing the ODBA and such just like Jim Holman (Taco). He wasn't even boating up until 3 years ago and now has a DRX on order. I just got him into a 44ft trailer to put all his stuff in....he is one of those that got the bug and is hooked. I've been racing boats in one form or another since I was 16. (now 42) I get a big kick out of seeing new guys with the passion I used to have in my early days. Also it's great seeing someone win a hard fought race and how excited they are afterward. Last year Jim wanted to go to Jasper and experience a "big" race. I told him not to expect to do very well but to use it as a learning experience. He ran OK (I knew he'd be 8-10 to slow due to the boat he had) but had an absolute ball. Now he is committed to running a bunch of races (as soon as we get a boat). Some day....some day maybe he will give Wayne a hard time on the race track. As long as he is enjoying himself he'll keep trying. That is what I think is good about our sport..the people.

Randy

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This reply is not directed at any one it's just my feelings about the subject.

I'm new to the high performance outboard scene but not new to drag racing.I've raced both cars and motorcycles in amature and pro competition.I recently purchased a Mirage Ski Racer powered by a 260 with SVS,34cc heads,light flywheel,20"offshore mid,and 4 hole CLE. I know that I won't be competitive in the class,but I will go and race anyway,in local races at first,to learn.I don't mind losing because the fun of racing outweights all of that.(I've lost a lot of races and won my share.) Just being at the events is worth the entrance fee,the people are great and you can learn so much. I also feel safer running 100mph with EMTs close by...

I'm sure I'll be like everyone else,I'll do everything I can to make my boat faster.Where does it end? Tractor trailer and 8 man crew........Only with GOOD sponsers and a boat load of money.

Doug

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Randy,

Like I said, selling this idea at Jasper will be hard, but I don't think it is impossible. Let me check into it. There are a few issues that we need to talk about, and get some details ironed out. I will give you a call this week.

Capt. Metko - A well set up Mirage with a 260 can be a great combination with a good prop. Like you, I feel that the entry fees are well worth the fun of competition. Let me know if I can help.

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