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Randy,

Like I said, selling this idea at Jasper will be hard, but I don't think it is impossible. Let me check into it. There are a few issues that we need to talk about, and get some details ironed out. I will give you a call this week.

Capt. Metko - A well set up Mirage with a 260 can be a great combination with a good prop. Like you, I feel that the entry fees are well worth the fun of competition. Let me know if I can help.

Thanks Wayne,I'll be in touch.This is supposed to be fun and when the fun leaves so do the people.

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Great Discussion guys...

Randy , I like what you are doing and I think it will definately promote growth.

Wayne...no disrespect to your promotion of the sport, ...but I would have tuff time (budget) making a boat competive with the measures you mention.

Do I hear any canooks interested in getting our group running again biggrin.gif

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WAYNE,

I would mean the engine build-up. Sounds like a lot of dough

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There are a lot of guys with very similar set up on the lakes right now. NOTHING about high performance - especially boats - is cheap, and racing NEVER is.

Anthony - don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see you traveling to the races in this area, even if you had a boat and engine like the one described. The additional cost to travel is another issue - especially from Canada. THAT it why a local grass roots club in your area would be a great thing.

The intent was to show that going racing - and winning - is possible, this is just the way we did it at the last race. I know several guys that have won this class with STOCK 260's. I spent a total $3030 on the electronics/ECU, SVS, reed cages, flywheel, and heads (not counting what I can get for selling all of the stock stuff from a 280). This is my lake engine, I didn't intend on racing it. It did go to the races, and did very well. So I posted here to let others know that it doesn't take a bunch of engine "magic" or "secret modifications" to win the class - as long as you don't come in 5 pounds light. smile.gif

Randy's open ended classes are the ticket where you have a limited number of racer to draw from, and/or to get the largest number of people into the sport with what they already own. Keeping the mods and costs down, with little travel time and expenses, will make for an attractive sport or hobby. It has proven to work well in other areas.

Even with opend ended classes, racing costs money and time, and I KNOW you won't be able to make everyone happy - that is a fact of life.

Costs to put on a race:

Liability insurance

rescue crews

Ambulance service on site

fuel/oil (and delivery)

fuel testing equipment (try running a race without it)

TIME (to set up, coordinate, and run the event)

radios and other misc equipment - flags/lights etc.

additional issues:

race site location

race permits and political red tape (for most locations)

crew to help run the event

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I bought most of this stuff used from internet forums.

Costs:

260 electronics - $350 complete

A6 - $500

SVS - $1000

Cut 280 heads - I paid $350 - but cut 260/Drag heads modified for a 280 with gaskets are cheap.

260 timing/throttle arm - $30-50

Lightened flywheel - not required, but good protection - I had an old one lightened, but you can buy them used for $300-$500

Sport jet reedcages - about $300 new for the set - used is cheaper.

I added new plug wires and spark plugs (the used ones wre still good) - just because.

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WAYNE,

Thanks for the input. We need to work together some day

Hey I am always up for an adventure and I will certainly be in your area some day to participate. biggrin.gif Not too win, but just to promote our sport. My Vision is meet each and everyone of you someday and to keep promoting this awesome sport we are all part of

Yes I understand all the ramifications with putting on an event and a race. ph34r.gif

Back in the mid 90s when I was setting up our drag league (in Canada), I was able to draw on some reliable sources in the USA, back then it was Danny McManus, when he was the drag Chairman with APBA, Galen Burden when he was the President for DSRA and also John Tiger when he was assisting with NEODA. Heck I was even an APBA Drag member, NEODA member and was a member of DSRA. I did attend one NEODA event in 1998.

Those guys where instrumental and very influential and helped me a lot cause, Like you guys I was trying to design classes that would best suit the guys I boated with. Thanks to all of the above mentioned

Our First Drag event was in July 18, 1998 (the day after my last cancer treatmentman was I blessed) and I was excited to have 6 participants. Unfortunately all the guys with the really hot equipment never showed. So there was some disappointment on my part but it never got in the way of my heart and determination for the sport and the 5 others that did show. It was an awesome day and I cant even still believe it today. biggrin.gif

Unfortunately 1999 showed no support and carry over from 1998 (other then me)but I didnt loose hope. So in 1999 we traveled to the Firewater Events and again in 2000. Unfortunately I suffered woes those two years and was unable to participate in the race events.I certainly tried though.so If I dont get support hereI need to travel biggrin.gif

The intent was to show that going racing - and winning - is possibleyour So right WayneI have other challenges today blink.gif but you can count me in for the support and hopefully someday t again.the race. THANKS

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At 1725 pounds under Super Gas rules you can add ANY bolt on part to the engine. The block, pistons, crank, rods, .........ALL internal parts have to stay STOCK.

Think about any aftermarket ECU, intake, reed cages, exh/tuner, heads, etc. bolted to the outside of a stock rotator(260/280 - no Drag engines, etc.). It should last a long time, and weighs over 100 pounds lighter than a Modified Production rules engine in the same class.

Change back to stock heads for lake riding on pump gas. THAT is why I like these rules in Lake Racer.

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As Wayne has said and I will repeat here, the "grass roots" classing or classes are more for the locals. Some of these locals will migrate to the ODBA and others. My whole point was to start some sort of cooperation between the two to help our sport along. In these posts and such, I think we have done just that...started something. I know that most can't go to the big events, but we all must start somewhere. That is what we are doing in MN/WI and we hope others will work toward that same direction. In the long run I feel the ODBA will get new guys that never thought they could do it.(hence Wayne starting this post in the first place) The local racing will be the catalist and some will go "pro" as I call it. Others will not but get the opportunity to experience racing with their present equipment and hopefully have some fun they won't soon forget. I think we all have something to gain so this is why I push it on here so much.

Randy

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Wayne, where are the super gas rules listed you referenced? I looked at the ODBA website under the 2005 rules listing and they listed seven classes. Super gas was not one of the classes listed.

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Super Gas rules are a sub class in Lake Racer (one of many). Super Gas WAS a class (actually several classes - Super Gas I rules were adopted)) in APBA Drag that is no longer run. The ODBA adopted the rules in Lake Racer since a lot of guys wanted to run them that also ran APBA Drags at the time.

I posted the link to the Lake Racer class rules and copied the Super Gas rules on this thread.

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I called myself reading those. Is paragraph " D " where the SVS is being allowed? I guess I was looking for something that stated that the SVS was a bolt on option on the 260 and 280.

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D. Any modifications external to the short-block are allowed except as noted.

This allows you to bolt on ANY part that is external to the short block, whether you make, buy it, etc.

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This thread is digging up some great info! It's soo nice to have a site that topics like this can be discussed without all the testosterone...great site! The grass roots races here have definately planted the bug in many of us.

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The ONLY reason an STV inline 2 seater is not legal in ODBA Lake Racer is the rules are written to require an open cockpit 3 seat capable boat. Pretty simple.

If you are going to allow a STV inline 2 seater in Lake Racer (just change the rear cap and it is a one seat full on race boat), then why not an allison XR2001...............they have 2 fairings too and they are also inline seat boats.............. I have a friend with a Mirage Quartermaster 2 seater, wanna allow it too????

If you allow an XR2001, and a Quartermaster, then what about allowing a DR20???????

Where do you draw the line?????????????

I hope you guys see my point.

I wanna see you all persuade a guy with a Bullet bass boat he has to line up with a DR20/STV Drag/XR2001/Quartermaster and he is going to have a "fair" race.

The rules call for an open cockpit 3 seat capable boat. An inline seat STV is neither. Neither is an XR2001 nor is my friends Quartermaster.

Those types of boats have 5 classes they can run in, one they cant. I really dont see the problem.

ER smile.gif

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RICH...you are confusing your RR with one of these (STV Mod VP two Seat) (inline). Your Boat (River Rocjket) is 3 seat capable

post-6-1116331506.jpg

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I'm just curious why the inline 2 seater models can't compete....maybe weight advantage over bulky rear bench hatch?

In Lake Racer, an STV River Rocket can use the race type rear fairing, since the boat can be (and is) configured from the manufacturer with rear seating for 2 other passengers.

The ModVP deck is a RACE boat as designed from the manufacturer (whether you use it to lake ride or not) and the other classes are written specifically for race boats.

Does this help?

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Just a thought here. There is a way to seperate a race hull from a hi performance one and that is with manufacturer's original published weights. The 2001 Allison, DR20 and the Quartermaster, if I had to guess, probaly all have weights in the mid 500 lb. range. A standard production STV ( 2 ) seater unlike some of the other drag hulls does not have a different bottom design from the regular STVs' and has a published production weight of , I believe, 725 lbs. or they did when Roark was building them. Why can't class limits be based on a published weight of not less than?

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So, if I have Triad build me a 1400 pound DR-20 or DRX, the guys running in Lake Racer in bass boats should be forced to race against my Pro Gas boat at 1900 pounds? That is what WILL happen sooner or later, trust me and Galen (ER) on this, the rules WILL be pushed to the max.

Lake Racer (and each class in the ODBA) has a given intent. The intent of Lake Racer is for LAKE boats. Not race boats that are used on the lake. The idea is to keep things as fair as possible. A guy in a Bullet bass boat NEEDS to feel that he has a chance to win, or he will not race.

If you want to race a boat that was specifically designed as a race boat, move to another class - you have a choice of 6 of them in the ODBA. OR run with another organization. Rope racing has NO rules other than brackets, AND you get to run against big block inboard boats.

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also remember there are spectators on the bank and they don't know anything about weights. all they know is that a "Race Boat" is out there running againest a "Lake Boat or Bass Boat" and how is that fair?

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Obviously, I need to tell you all how the ODBA works. First it is a club. You pay your membership and join. Each class you race in has a representative that is on the rules committee that is voted in by the class members at the annual banquet and members meeting. The Officers and Board of Directors are voted on at this time as well.

If you want a rules clarification or rule change in your class, you take it to the class rep with as many other guys in the class that you can. It goes before the rules committee for discussion and a vote, and then to the Board of Directors to make sure it fits within the intent of the class. If it is voted in, it passes.

Issues or changes that come up durring the season USUALLY will not be changed until the following annual rules committee meeting at the end of the season to be published the following year. This prevents mid-season changes and "ramp rules" from happening, that someone in the class will not know about.

I hope this helps.

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The last few posts are exactly why I think we need to look at a "pro" and "am" type deal. Pro being the ODBA and it's present classes, the Am being our local races and their more "open" class stucture. While I don't run DR-20s against lake boats (boats with seating for more than just the driver) in our races, situations have come up. We had a guy with a XR2001 and a 2.4 bridgeport on a 12" mid. Put him with the 2.5s on Riverrockets and 2.5s on Xr2002s(with seats). It turned out quite close. They traded wins between them.

Maybe in the future this "local" classing may be something that ODBA might look at. For now Wayne and I are talking about it's possibilities. It is something that can give everyone a place to run that doesn't nessesarily fit in a "pro" class. One thing I feel that is important is that these "am" classes are NOT open to racers that run the "pro" classes. It should be for the new or non-racing boaters to get them competing. If they are racing in the established classes, they should stay there. Guys that do boats for a living (like myself) or have tons of seat time in drag racing (Glen Reynolds, Wayne, etc etc) have an advantage that would go against the purpose of the whole concept. We do that in MN already. Myself and a few others are restricted to the top class we run (it's like mod production or pro gas). This gives the lake guys a fighting chance.

Just some thoughts..

Randy

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Randy, this is how I see it................

Where you live, you apparently have a personal following.....which is a good thing.

Apparently most that come to run your events trust you to classify their boats in classes you deem they fit.

All well and good. These guys know you, they respect your judgement.

Now...........Go try this at Jasper or in Florida or Alabama or anywhere else they dont know you from Joe Blow. You would have a BIG suprise. Maybe you already know this. I suspect you do.

In our area, I think Dwayne Roberie is respected/trusted that way. I have worked with raced with and raced against him for 20+ years. To me, he is one of the most honest and knowledgeable guys in outboard drags. I can tell you he can just look at a boat and tell you about where it will fall. He is pretty good.

I can also tell you, if he was classing 20 boats and one ringer fell thru the crack, 19 would be calling for his head, saying the fix was in. It would quickly be a nitghtmare.

I am glad you have a following in your area......more racing is good racing. I can also see the down side.

The big thing is........

I commend you for your efforts, they are an act of giving few will make.

ER smile.gif

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