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What PROP??

What PROP??  

11 members have voted

  1. 1. What PROP??

    • Merc Cleaver
      8
    • Merc ET
      15
    • Merc 4 Blade Semi-Cleaver (Cleaper)
      1
    • Merc Chopper or Chopper II
      9
    • Mazco RE
      7
    • Mazco OS Cleaver
      0
    • OMC SST RX
      2
    • Yamaha Semi Cleaver
      6
    • Spinelli (EE or Cleaver)
      1


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Dear FAST-Company,

OK lets get the poll going on Props now. Tell us about your favorite ALL-ROUND prop for your STV/LTV Hull.

Ill get a poll going for Drag and Roundy props later.

Also lets us know its traits and what pitch, number of blades and diameter top RPM and Power.

Sorry the list cant be longer (We only can put 10 choices)

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Yamaha drag props are the best wheels for allround river use on my LTV(not mine no more)...I run choppers, SRX's, and a Hoss triton and the yamaha was the best for the capibilities of the boat...I run a 30" merc cleaver for top end, and fornd that top end ain't the LTV's best trait!!! So the Yamaha is quick and if ya motor is capible of upper 8000 to 10000 rpm's the smaller yamahas will give you neck snapping acceleration and still put around the 3 digit mark...The LTV with 1:87 gears, cruises with a 260 @ 4000rpm's without any problems and when punched @ that rpm has unreal acceleration...big numbers are OK, but 0 to 90+ in 600' iz totally awsom...REX :p

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GOOD Comments REX,,,

I have never actually tried a Yami Prop on my rig..!

Get this...Back in about 1995, John Tiger shows up to do some prop tests with a bunch of Mazco and Mach wheels. Owner of CE boats shows up with a bunch of Yammi Blanks,,,

...I look at the Yammi blanks and go "YEAH RITE" and don't even give them any extra thought....

a few yrs later I find out that they are the most sought after drag props....!

I was real STUPID that day...cause I probably could have bought them all for cheap...NOW no one knows what happened to those props as the owner is NO longer in Business

...STILL can't complain as I cannot say enuff good about my 14.5" x 30" Cleaver!

Still my favorite wheel

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Anthony, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER turn down trying a wheel if U have the opertunity...Ya never know what prop will be the ultimate prop for your bote...U take 3 stv's, wit same power and the same prop don't alwayz run the same on all boats...My ole REX iz heavy and big, and everbody sayz a big ear prop will run the best because of bow lift...the best prop I ever run(with the 2400# river ready weight) is a 28 mazco cleaver...Who would have ever thunk??...Try'em all, ya never know...I once run a 28 merc cleaver that a buddy gave me to try, He also give me a 30" merc cleaver to try also, I tried the 28" first, wuzn't that great and didn't really turn the RPM I wuz turning, so I didn't try the 30"...6 months later, I slung a blade on the merc 28chopper I wuz running, thus putting me without a prop...Byron loaned me that 30" jus to git around(he had sold the 28)...that 30 turned out to be the best prop I ever had...(when boat wuz 1850#'s)...Tha big ole tank run 98.7mph...needless to say I bought it...Jus git sum new Prop nuts and git to work...REX :p

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Dear FAST-Company,

OK lets get the poll going on Props now. Tell us about your favorite ALL-ROUND prop for your STV/LTV Hull.

Ill get a poll going for Drag and Roundy props later.

Also lets us know its traits and what pitch, number of blades and diameter top RPM and Power.

Sorry the list cant be longer (We only can put 10 choices)

anthony

With my STV EURO 225MAG I have tried a few props a mazco 26 and 29 didn't see much diffrence in hole shot but the top end was consideribly better with the 29. I hit a log and tore up my SM gearcase and my 29, so I bought a new SM and and thought Hmmm! time for a new prop so I did some research and went with a 14.5 by 30 MERC LIGHTNING ETwhat a hole shot and I also gained about 3mph. There was also alot less steering torque.

                                                      RIVER RUNNER

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THANKS for your comments RR,

YES the ET is gaining much popularity with STV owners too...as the poll would agree!

I personally have a 24 ET and it is awesome too! Its a real dream to drive, with a cleaver like feel!

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Well guys, this weekend I'm going to try two props.  I'll be 2 1/2 up (my friend and his son) and a cooler.  In Hot Boat mag, there is a shop called R&R Prop Shop that is about 15 minutes from me.  Kevin over there and I had about a 3hr chat last night.

He's got an HST with a 2.5 - the only other performance outboard boater I've met here in Vegas.  I told him of my issues (usually running 2-3 people and have slow acceleration with my Mazco RE-3 29) and we went through a gaggle of props.

I ended up leaving with a Spinelli Bros 14.5 x 26 and a copy of a Yamaha Drag 14.5 x 26.  I'm going to try them both tomorrow in the river to see what the acceleration difference and top end is like.

My plan was to do some 40-90 runs with my friend running a stop watch on the two 26's, then pick the one I like better and make a 30 mile trip with it.  I'll then swap back to my 29 for the trip home for a comparison to what I have been running.

What other tests/procedures should I do?  Anyone have any good things to try?

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:D 1995 river rocket with a 98 260 mariner (approx 320 h.p.)

running a 14x27 hoss triton 9200 rpm's. this is my main prop i use, very good acceleration and a top speed of 112-114.

have a 25p yamaha, really accelerates very well tops out at about 106.

have a mazco 29p re 3. very smooth, no porpoising in the 60-80mph range, runs around 8200 rpm's. very good handling prop. has a hairline crack in it so i keep it as a spare.

very satisfied with these three props.

neil

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Moving this back up as there seems to be a bunch of questions on props of choice again...I think the poll is quite accurate as to props that favour STV's

My vote is still Merc Cleavers and ET

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Her You Go DREAMER...I am moving this up for your attention. Here is some good info on PROPs for you

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Excellent stuff gents. TY.

Just called  a shop to see what they would recommend other than my 32. He suggested a 28 lightning ET as a good all day running prop for my set up. Unfortunately he doesn't have a payment plan....$1500+taxes Canadian.LOL. I need gently used pls at a huge discount.....anyone!

It appears most run the mid range props 26-29....so maybe a 26 and a 29 for me.

Keith....I'd be very interested in knowing how you do...closest set up I think as mine.

email is.....gottahaveanstv@hotmail.com ( hey I fell in love with them as soon as I saw them)

Dreamer

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Roark said that if the motor was mounted on the transom, set it at the second hole down on the clamp bracket, and run a Mazco RE-3 29 (ask for an STV cut).  My dad's PCS ran good with that setup.

The boat I bought from Anthony has a 6" setback jackplate on it.  The setback helps with the lift of the boat.   A prop like a cleaver lifts the tail, while a chopper lifts the nose.  With setback, you have more leverage on the nose, so a chopper lifts even harder with it.  This is good if you run with multiple people or a heavy load.

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LOVE THE ET AND THE  MERC CLEAVERS-  SEEN REAL GOOD RESULTS WITH THE THE ET ON AN EURO BUT PRICING SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM AND WARRANTY!!!  CLEAVERS, LOVE THE TOP END, BUT MAYBE A BIT A OF PROBLEM ON THE HEAVIER HULLS. I PERSONNALLY LIKE TO TRY BEFORE I BUY SO YOU CAN TEST AND GET REAL RESULTS AND COMPARE- ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS IS PROP SLIP WHEN GOING FROM THE DIFFERENT STV MODELS- SEEMS THE EURO AND PROCOMP ARE AROUND THE 2-8% MARK AND THE MODVP AND RR ARE IN THE 9-12% MARK-ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS-

THX.  PAUL

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Have a 29 Mazco that I really do not like..Presently running a 31 merc lab cleaver which I like but think it is a bit much for all round use..ordered a 27 yamaha drag today and have been told it will be better for day in and day out use..My boat isn't set up with jack plate or back set..I'm about 3/4 above the pad..I think with the set backs you have to be much higher and it changes the prop requirement a great deal

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JJ, if you don't mind be asking, what a 27 Yamaha drag go for new?

Sorry about the chat sunday night.  Friggin computer!

ProComp

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Can't answer that for you PC..the prop I bought is a Powertech scc 27 (yamaha copy)..I talked with Randy(aquaholic) and he has 2 or 3 of these things and advised I would be happy with one..I figure if anyone knows anything about props it would be him..I paid $300 plus $10 shipping for this one (USD) so figure its not a large investment..The pic on S&F shows it to be a 9 with very little use

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I think the slip variable is coming from the part of the blade that is actually doing the work. Nosubforcuin on the S&F site mentioned this and seems to make sense.  Look at prop tests and they don't make any sense.

If using a setback then the engine needs to go higher due to 2 reasons.

-Draw an imaginary line off the hull. With anything greater than a zero attack angle the line goes deeper in the water the farther back you go.  

-The farther from the back of the boat you go the higher the water rises. This is the idea behind a notched transom. The boat is pushing the water down and it rebounds back up to water level behind the boat.

I don't think much of the lever theory for setback. Moving 400lbs. of engine back 6" or 12" is a large change in the boats balance. This in affect makes the bow lighter, the stern heavier.  Carrying the bow I think comes more from this than the leverage since the goal is to reduce the trim angle as much as possible. If trim is zero then so is the leverage arm.

For heavy boats this may be helping but if this setback change reduces the trim used then the leverage arm increase is negated by the thrust angle change, since they're the same thing. You end up with the same lever arm as before. So it must be the wieght change which stays static.

Maybe a shorter way of saying the same thing is the lever arm is shortend when trim aproaches neutral. If you've trimmed in compared to before a setback then your reducing the lever back to what it was.

Taking my OB off changed the tongue wieght from about 20-30 lbs to around, well I forgot about 160? Or was it over 200? I could lift it before I wieghed it but now I can't.

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GOOD Topic Paul,

Interestingly things like prop pitch, Theoretical speed, and slip are just merely benchmark material and NOT exacting science.

Your absolutely correct on the various slip percentages you describe and No two passes generally generate the same data, because wind, water and air temp conditions also change which will effect the results.

I would be interested to know what props and set-ups  (say engine ht) where used with the data you collected.

Here is little clue

Did you know that depending on whether you use a cleaver style blade or RE style blade, it will effect slip and efficiency.

Cleavers are actually less efficient and slip more. Generally cause they are low rake and slice the water more where as a RE blades (with higher rake) cups and bites the water more and hold the boat more.

The Cleaver is designed to slip more so it will generate RPM and Acceleration better. Thats why Cleaver designs are used mostly on the Roundy racecourse. Cause the races are won by acceleration and not top speed. So using a prop that will wind up better is preferred.

Thats often the key to a good accelerating STV is the use of a low rake prop that will wind up quickly and put the STV hull where it outshines most hullsin the acceleration department!!

When we ran our STV, we got some of our best top speeds with an interestingly high 13% efficiencybut again it is NOT an EXACT science. Who really knows how accurate your prop pitch is cause Mercurys way of grading them is also by averaging. I always get a kick out the guy that says he has a 28 pitch prop but it is cupped to 30.

Anyway Good Topic Paullet me know if I was not clear with some of my points. I would be happy to elaborate more on the topic.

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good description of set back from techno-I cannot understand some stv's with all that added setbck- to a degree the heavier hulls with 4 seats benefit from it but the lighter stuff is hard to drive- my last one was a 580 lbs and was very difficult to drive.  It was next to impossible to hold the nose down- took the set back off and bolted her to the transom and it was different boat- I can see why the racers set them back-picks the boat up quicker- for those controlled conditions that is ok- for the daily river/lake racer I think Roark builtin enough setback in the hull- as for the slip comments I agree with what was said- are slip figures are consistent with the various changes made to the boat- no matter what we do, seems the Euro and procomp are more efficient than a RR or Modvp- perhaps the deck lid design begins to play at part as the speeds climb over 100?? as for hard numbers anthony, we probably should keep a log. one thing we have found is changing the gearing in the case can provide some interesting results- keep up the comments guys- this kind of info is beneficial to all stv'ers-

paul :)

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YES...FORGOT to mention ...

X-cellent post by Techno.

Funny you mention that the Euro and Procomp figure to be most efficient. It make no sense other then maybe reviewing the angle of attack. Maybe they fly with most efficeint angle.

Funny in discussions I have with Mr. Summerford..The Euro is the least boat he advises to go over 100mph in, yet he is quite aware of how fast they can go with the rite power. Frankly after the design they were very surprised how fast it would go with its big frontal area!

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boy guys this is really a great discusion, i have a 96 euro with a 300 drag with a 30 merc cleaver I have run 118.2, I also run a 30 et for just cruising around the river or the lake and have a 26 yami for drag racing, what do you guys think of the power tech props

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Anthony, regarding roarks comments on the euro-what were his concerns at speed?? twister your rig is dialed at 118- seems that the Euro hits a wall at about 117ish-there are alot of claims of 120's but there is something to this-ie. running down stream-salt content etc.. if we could take all the dialed euro's and run them in the same place I bet we would see very close figures-I have been told the euro is 10 mph slower than the RR all things being equal. the frontal area of the deck lids of the various stv's has air flow effects that dictate how well it can pierce through the air and the way that air makes its way down the boat- for example, when I first took my modvp out I would have the two seater fairing in- though I needed to move the battery forward as the boat felt to flighty in the front- by chance I took it out and went for a ride without the fairing-thought someone put sand bags up front- the boat was completely different- these boats are very sensetive to air flow and to weight and its placement. wish I could speak to roark as I have never had the pleasure-to many variables and not enough answers-sure makes it fun to shoot the sh@#$t with the guys though.

paul

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keith, 8800=8900 the prop was a prop that i got from a guy up north and only ran it once this prop is light and i think its only a 14" prop I use a 9" setback and a sm 1' 3/4 obove the pad. ive run 116 with a mazco 30

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Paul...your answeerd your own questions regarding Roark's threshold speed on the Euro...

It is exactly as you mentioned...Big Frontal Area, Big Open Cockpit all = ill handling due to lack of aero-dynamics as the speed increases.

I remember Jay Roth had both a Euro then a RR both. Both had the then SS s3000 motor on it.  He told me not to buy a Euro if I really wanted to go fast. He said the Eruo moved around way to much at speed and the RR was much nicer to drive comparing the 2.

I am sure that wall you speak of is hugely due to the aero effects.

Based on newer STV models Roarks rankings are:

Mod vp deck, RR, then Euro as far what is the best STV for the Fastest, safest speeds...!!

Did you run any weight in the nose of your Pro Comp. I was advised to due so in mine so I loaded a 15# anchor in mine. Some Procomps could be oredered from the factory with weight already built in.

It was about the size of a face brick and it was located in the hull on the back side of the bow ring. I think they put lead shot or something in it and it did help keep the nose down on the PC model. Helped set the nose into the turns too.

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