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W. Tripp

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All the comments are greatly appreciated. While a light boat is great they are a little finicky. I told Pete to take some shot bags and experiment. I drive differently than he does. I drive by feel and for the most part can tell what a boat is doing. I also agree that a sportmaster is able to obtain of speeds above 120. But it is more unstable and gives less of a "signal" to the operator.The signal it gave me was that it wasn't totally happy at speed which got worse if trim or crab angles weren't just right. I have a stock weight RR that a customer runs that is happily running 120ish with a 260. The boat is soooo forgiving and quite easy to drive. When compared to my boat, the lightness of mine kills it on acceleration but mine is harder to get a handle on. I'm just used to it's demands and find it fun. When the light boat in question was being ordered this characteristic was brought up. But it was all about being the lightest that got chosen. While this is fine for me and someone who can "read" a boats demands, it's not the first thing I suggest to a customer. Jon Graff's boat with a 20" 2.4 bridgeport runs 105 all day with exactly the same set up and rigging so I would venture to say it's not the basic combo. Jon's boat is a stock 4 seater with a modified sportmaster and an A63 chip feeding a 39lb regulator for the 2.4. It is a sweet, easy to drive, ride. Now take out 200lbs and add 70hp, it will take some getting used to and some balance to go faster than 110 for most people I know.

Glad we are all on the same page here can discuss this openly. That's what makes this site one of the best.

Randy

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Randy,great point about "signal", I have always called then "Numb", as you cannot feel a damn thing in the wheel with them ( sportmasters ). I too drive by my ass ( when I actually do go out ), I am not sure you can do it any other way. If you cannot drive by feel I think you are in WAY over your head. Your ass hands and eyes ( where I am lacking ) make the driver, that and you better understand what is going on under you.

RT

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RT,

That's why I'm always against trim indicators in boats like this. Like you said, if you can't feel it and make sense of what it's telling you, your in over your head. Some of us have the knack, some don't. Same as why I suck at golf, no feel for the club. (it needs a steering wheel) Most of the guys who want trim indicators want to use them for guidance on proper trim. I'm telling them to take their time and trust their butt. With some seat time you gain a "feel" and you'll be much the better driver for it.

As a side note if I had to do another boat for myself I'd do it much like Wayne Tripp's "lake boat". The 280 with 260 electrics and a nice well built, tough layup, boat. I'd have a nice maintainence free boat that still excited the senses. The big power is so expencive and with what happened to Klienmark, who really needs to go THAT fast on the lake in the first place. I've had mine set up for acceleration all year and am having a much better time with it this summer.

Randy

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Without stepping out of turn, I would never speek for Wayne, but I am pretty sure his is the same as Petes. His is I think around the 550 mark, Barney is 520, Barney has a foam transom ( the only one I know of ) and there is a 15 lb savings right there.

Now on the trim indicator, I have never run one. Barney has one and it is the first time I have had any real experiance with one. I love it, but only for one reason and that is lauches. YOu can set the motor in the same spot every time, and you do not have to look back to see where you are while idleing...... after that your ass is the best there is.... and it is very fast if you are good. Nothing can tell you better than experienced feeling.

On the Klienmark crash, I am glad he is ok, and for those that are paying attention he is banged up and was belted into a safety cell. If you have ever seen what can happen to these boats when they go over many times there is not a lot left. Hydraulics are powerfull.........

A few years ago I have lost my appetite for top end. Years ago to break 120 was a BIG deal, now it is a joke. A long long time ago I was running over 120 and no one beleived me, I am sure there are people that still don't cus they cannot do it with there rigs ( which goes back to driver and set up that has been talked about a lot in this post ), but for me I started to loose my taste for speed as I started to think of all the things that could break or I could hit ( sticks logs rouge wave etc.) that is assuming I did not screw up. Add that you FEEL acceleration, you don't feel top end as much.

Great post keep it rolling.

RT

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Rt,

I mean't for myself I'd like a boat like that and not for customers etc. I'm so used to it that I need the complexity of it just to keep me interested. The trim indicator used like you said is good. Most of the guys I deal with use it for the sake of their true trim reference and that is what I'm against.

Some info on the Klienmark crash. I posted that a part failure was the case on "the other" web forum. I have it from some one close in the "circle" that the right steering bar was broke off at the bolts. The bolts are still there and tight but the little halves on the bar that would be on the opposite side as the bar itself are still pinched in the bolts to the center. This would indicate the bar itself failed and on the "pull" side due to the steering torque. Bad deal.. But this explains the violent hook. Another reason I try my hardest to make my set ups very neutral in steering torque. Another interesting piece is the tach recall is pegged at 14000 rpm. That would explain the broken crank. In the crashes I've had the same thing happens, your foot is firmly pushing to the floor.

Randy

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Yike, I would not have thought about the plate breaking, I could see the pully bolts but not the plate!.

I was with you on the locked up gearcase, I cannot see that doing anything more than slowing the boat down hard. I have see a mid break at that speed and it hooked violently ( we got the driver at 109 on the gun ). In our case the tack was pinned and the motor had the "z" rod mod and a few windows...... he NEVER lifted. I am glad Jeff is OK, and am glad he was in a cell in a somewhat controled enviroment.

In his case the mid could have failed to cause the steering to fail too. I am speculating as I cannot see it. But I too don't think the crank caused it....... I think it was a result of the actions leading up to it.

And we all know that Kleinmark DOESN'T lift.

RT

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If the steering arm broke, there should be evidence in the fracture itself. Typically, a crack forms and darkens with age, oil, contamination,.etc. The crack propagates until there's not enough solid material to carry the load. Then comes the catastrophic failure. A fracture of this type would show like rings in a tree trunk.

Studying the piece that's still in place should reveal more information.

Chris

PS

Nice meeting you at the Rumble RT

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There are 3 bolts that hold it on. The first one shows it went first and was fractured for some time before the others. I think the others were leveraged into failing. I haven't seen it but this is the word so far. The fracture would be covered up by the bolt/washer set up.

Randy

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Chris it was a pleasure meeting you too.

I would bet on a mid or steering failure on that boat.... anything but a motor failure.

I think that is an old screw style 12", not exactly the strongest out there.

RT

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Randy,

I haven't had the time to respond to your comments regarding rigging the lighter RR. First off, I suggested that Pete order a Euro. I will leave it there!

I saw Pete's boat and wondered about the setback. I thought that the boats Wally builds have more setback built in the short shaft hulls?

My Euro Ski hull was built for a short shaft and the jack plate set back is about 1 3/4 inches less than Pete's. His RR must be lighter in the front than mine right?

I am no expert but it seems that the boat CG has moved too far to the rear?

I would seem that more set back would only offer lateral stability but the bounce.

I have a 2001 2.5 Drag on my Euro Ski. What did you mean "the higher ports" on his drag motor? Did you mean his motor was modified or just the later 2.5 Drag motors in general.

Please advise. cool.gif

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STV Bob,

Glad you responded.

I do believe that his boat is totally tame-able to his taste. I have made the suggestions to do just that to him personally. They are very minor adjustments and some driving tips to become more "one" with the boat. His comments of lack of performance or handling are what I feel are wide of the mark. (here and other places) Every time I make a suggestion or comment that I'didn't think that was the best plan I was met with "this is the way I think, will it go if that's the way it's done". Sure it will,...If I'm driving it. I took the thing out for the first time and through all the jetski and wake board traffic spun it 118 in a 400 yard squirt from a 40mph roll. It wasn't even done pulling yet. Did I expect him to be able to do that right off? No, not on your life. Did he expect that?...yup. Pretty unrealistic. The boat needs some weight placed just ahead of the "kick" board for starters. Even I wished I had that during my test. We were going to do this the next day but he had to leave due to some things that came up and he had to deal with personally..couldn't be helped and not his fault. I have 30lbs, he has none. He may need more, but he needs to experiment. I would have liked to move the battery and the trim pump forward but halfway through the build he wanted a backseat to exchange with the fairing when he wanted, that killed that. The Drag engines ..I offered to build from scratch a hand ported Tom Johnson drag engine from new components with a Mad EFI from and PCU etc. A clone to mine basically. With warranty for a couple thou less than the Merc drag. Well he wanted a drag engine from Merc. I now find that they are ported so differently they (2005 models from the last build) won't pass an ODBA spec template. Not of my doing but now we have to make that work too. The motor is high strung and when compared to the 2001 you have the exhaust port is more "football shaped and the tranfer ports are higher than your engine. Yours is "better" for this and your set up. My engine is a blueprinted and flowed version of yours. The ports are high enough, they just need consistency and direction. Most everything on your boat will work on his and vice-versa. His will be more flighty and harder to reign in but I think if you drove both you'd find his quicker and somewhat faster than your Euro. That should be expected. I would doubt that you'd like the handling right off but it grows on you. It's more sensitve and is always looking for little trim corrections as it goes faster and faster. The Euro deck must tame a little of the "looseness" down. (And I 've driven and owned some real light ones.)

Anyhow, take all this with a grain of salt and see my point for what it's worth. There is a lot to be learned and he just needs to "listen" to what the boat is telling him and give it what it wants. You probably do this with your boat and don't realise your doing it. Everybody is different and I see more in a year than most see in a lifetime.(types of drivers and guys that can "read" boats) Some need to slow down a develop a drivng style as they learn their new boat. The speed will come as it's already there, he just needs to relax and find it on his terms. This isn't like driving a car..more like a plane, there is much more going on than the corvette.

Sorry for bending your ear on this. It's really not your job to be "mediator" but thanks for the listen.

Randy

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This has been good reading material. Just my 2 cents. We have had the Euro with the 200 on it and it had a stock gearcase with a Hydromotive nose cone on it. I got used to driving the boat the way. Randy(GPI) has told me in the past that the CLE was a good case for the Euro. Well last year when we lost the old stock case took a dump we had Randy get us a Sportmaster. Well I could tell the first time I drove it it was different and this year after spending some time driving the boat the sportmaster is not my favoite. I've had the boat about spin around on me twice now. Hey I'm an old fart and still learning!!! I liked my old modified 200 case better it was easier to drive and didn't feel as loose as the boat does now.I don't know many people that used the Hydromotive nose cone but it's more on the line of the Titus. I still want to do the Titus mod but it will have be next year. :)

post-36-1124808320.jpg

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This has been good reading material. Just my 2 cents. We have had the Euro with the 200 on it and it had a stock gearcase with a Hydromotive nose cone on it. I got used to driving the boat the way.  Randy(GPI) has told me in the pasted that the CLE was a good case for the Euro. Well last year when we lost the old stock case took a dump we had Randy get us a Sportmaster. Well I could tell the first time I drove it it was different and this year after spending some time driving the boat the sportmaster is not my favoite. I've had the boat about spin around on me twice now. Hey I'm an old fart and still learning!!! I liked my old modified 200 case better it was easier to drive and didn't feel as loose as the boat does now.I don't know many people that used the Hydromotive nose cone but it's more on the line of the Titus.  I still want to do the Titus mod but it will have be next year.  smile.gif

I ran a Hydromotive cone on my STV ModVP with my Yamaha and it drove like a dream. Not saying it was just the cone but it never showed any of the handling issue's some said STV's had .... not one.

Can you weld on the front of a Sportmaster to be able to shape the nose ?

Yammer

PS ... the question is do I mod my SM or do I get that mint 4 hole CLE my friend has and send it to Titus ?? I would like to try one first ?? RPM !!!

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For all that contributed to this thread thanks! i'm not big into topend but this past week i was able to take my boat out and just toy with it(normally it's work when i'm in it :rolleyes: ).

i ran a sportsmaster that i modified on skeg only reducing it's height and working the torq tab. the motor is a modified svs drag with 19cc heads(i know not ideal for this), a stock 30 chopper, and a chewed up 30 spinelli cleaver.

i added 24#'s of weight in front of me(thanks for the tip guys) and with the 30 chopper it did 126 @ 9500 and felt extremely stable and mannered, felt glued to the water. i then tried the 30 spinelli and ran 125 @ 9400, it was quicker and looser which made me a lil more edgier compared to the chopper but still a good stable run.

shut down was not a biggie at all, infact there is no traits that i could recall to give any feedback.

i know these are no big numbers compared to what people are running now but with limited topend equipment and only the second time i had the boat out for topend i had an exciting day and had a hard time sleeping. next try i might have a better set up.

thanks to everyone i have learned from.

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Awesome numbers CRAIG....nothing to downplay...Thanks for letting us know

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Craig was that 126 with a stock 30 merc chopper (small or big ear?) what gear and case did you run?

I am guessing a xr6 with 1.78 gears

Those are some really good numbers for first day out!!!

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rpm racing, the case was a sportsmaster with 1.87 gears and the chopper was for my brother(borowed) it's suppose to be completely stock. the 30 spinelli cleaver was also a borowed wheel(G-man) has been ragged out and needs attention.

i have a xr6 with 1.87's but is currently under construction.

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Craig, those are awesome numbers!!! There are a few guys in your ball park but not many, and several more who claim they are. Congrats,

fish

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